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Thread: O/T- referendum

  1. #8
    Senior Member /Vico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boxsterboy View Post
    Its nothing to do with the US. What a lot of people here dont like is having our democratically elected government over-ruled by a bunch of un-elected Eurocrats. If more power was given back to us the problem might go away.
    There are a lot of people here who don't like being overruled, by anybody really, but it wouldn't be such an issue if the EU wasn't as ineffective and corrupt as it is. I think a lot of people would prefer it if it were only about commerce and taxes. Whether prisoners get the vote is minor stuff that even prisoners don't often care about.
    It is what it is.

  2. #9
    Senior Member /Vico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwlbrace View Post
    It's interesting that Farage has lobbied and successfully now achieved an 'in/out' agreement on the referendum. I would say that UKIP is building a bit of a head of steam, especially in traditional working class Tory voting households.
    I think the BNP is doing well in working class Tory households. Farage is for the lower-middle class Tory voters. I think he is also the new Boris, now that Boris is the new Thatcher.
    It is what it is.

  3. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by boards_Florian View Post
    I'm really curious what you lot have to say about this topic. For us continental guys, the idea that the UK might withdraw from the EU appears just plain wrong, just like independence for Catalunia. In a world where China and India emerge as new global powers, the only way for European countries to remain somewhat meaningful entities is to form a stron union. Or do you think the City makes you sort of part of the US so that you don't need the EU?
    The mention of "the city" is very relevant.
    The "city" is a power base of offshore finance that desperately needs to be reigned in becasue of its woeful negative effects on the worlds real economy. The "city" is the power behind the international offshore system which bleeds economies dry and perpetuates a race to the bottom in terms of meaningful beneficial financial regulation. The "city" was and is the continuation of colonialism by other means. The "city" and its extended web of offshore influence( jersy, caymans, hong kong etc) are responsible for the flight of capital out of the real economy, away from real investment in the real economy.
    Unfortunately the "city" is very powerful with an extremely effective lobbying system which has a mighty hold on the UK governement/establishment. It is not in the interest of the "city" for more european integration because along with that will come increased financial regulation, and the tightening up of offshore regulation.
    The city will fight vehemently, effectively and behind the scenes for getting out of europe in order to protect its own interests. These are not the same things as the interests of the vast majority of UK taxpayers.
    The "offshore" systems promoted and propogated by the "city" were intrinsic to the economic downturn we are now in.

    Just something to bear in mind through the in/out debate

  4. #11
    Senior Member TwoFish's Avatar
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    Sabre rattling I suspect, but probably a good time to rattle sabres. Part of it no doubt is to assuage the Little Englanders who might otherwise defect to UKIP, but I wonder if part of it is aimed at more sensible 'strivers' in Europe. I would hope that in continental Europe, there is a growing public discontent with the hideous mess that left-wing tax-borrow-spend-redistribute-over-regulate economics has brought about. It would be plain stupid for the UK to leave the EU, but I wonder if it's possible to help build a wave of opposition from continental European voters against the way the current EU approach and bring things back to a more sensible footing.

    What do you say Florian? Are you with us?

    PS. Nico. Most of the commentary suggests that the BNP tends to take votes from Labour rather than the Tories. Given that both Labour and the BNP are positioned to appeal to thickies, that would seem pretty likely to me.
    Last edited by TwoFish; 23rd January 2013 at 10:31 AM.
    Eeeh 'tis grim dahn Sarf.

  5. #12
    "left-wing tax-borrow-spend-redistribute-over-regulate" Serious? Which one do you mean? Ireland? Spain? Man, how long does it take to understand that the current Euro-crisis is a crisis brought about by a) divergent productivity within the Euro-area and b) collapsing housing bubbles brought about by toxic financial products and PRIVATE overspending!

    The only case of gross governmental failure is Greece. But there it has nothing to do with left/right but with a rotten political culture in general.

    In general, I think that there are certain areas in which the EU is indeed overdoing things which could be handled on a more regional basis, but on the other hand, a much higher level of integration is needed on other issues, such as, for instance, foreign policy, banking regulation and probably even to a certain degree taxes and welfare systems (I guess the banking regulation is one point the UK will never agree upon).

  6. #13
    And I don't really understand the BNP and UKIP appeasement arguemtent. I mean, there are/have been anti EU populist parties in other countries and with your majority voting system, this should not be a real concern, or should it?

  7. #14
    Senior Member Jeroensurf's Avatar
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    The last time the UK didn't wanted to join EU the pund became a LOT cheaper.
    As a result of that was going from the continent to Cornwall and buying stuff of the UK within a couple of years a LOT cheaper.

    Please guarantee me my quality time at the Brittish waves by staying out of the EU.

    Serious: the problems the EU are facing right now are peanuts to what the US is dealing with. When thinking in long therms the EU seems to me the only solution to keep up with China, India and Brazil and i,m pretty sure that the financial crisis is with a year of 5 all over and forgotten.
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