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  1. #22
    Interesting Jeroen. Did the crack go right through to the foam?
    http://forwards4cowards.blogspot.com/ a blog about looping

    UPDATED Feb 2016

  2. #23
    Senior Member Billyboy's Avatar
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    My witchcraft HDDs are covered with cracks, dents and chips so don't get one expecting it to look immaculate forever, especially if you have to deal with shingly shorebreak! It will look well used just like any other board but the difference is that the damage (to mine anyway) has always been superficial, i.e. just the paint cracking or a pressure dent from the mast hitting the nose. I rarely do any repairs because I don't really care what my boards LOOK like, I just want them to be strong and the HDD's certainly seem to be that! If you can buy a board new, keep it for 6 years without doing much maintenance and then sell it on for 200 then that is pretty good value IMO. I don't think any production board would do that - certainly not the ones I've owned, all of which need a lot more care and attention and are VERY unlikely to last 6 years!

  3. #24
    Senior Member Witchcraft's Avatar
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    A "few" remarks:

    Quote Originally Posted by basher View Post
    Surely Witchcraft are now production boards?
    For your info, we do both, on Fuerte we build the custom boards and prototypes.

    Quote Originally Posted by basher View Post
    How do you know that a random custom board is any better or worse than a production board? You can hardly test drive the shape before ordering it.
    It depends on the custom builder. A good builder will give you garantee on the performance of the board. For example in relation to the board(s) you have or are familiar with. And can garantee that it will be the best board you can find.

    Quote Originally Posted by basher View Post
    If there were more local shapers then the chances of getting a good custom for your local beach would be better.
    I dont know if that would be any trustworthy indication, should not be but competition can be a good drive to improve. Here in our little village there are 5.

    Quote Originally Posted by basher View Post
    People stopped buying custom boards because production boards got so much better.
    They've come back in the market a bit since production kit got so very expensive. People forget to mention stuff like that.
    Yes, Cobra became too much of a competition for many custom builders 10-15 years ago. But now they nearly hold a monopoly position at least for "mass" production and the brands who have their boards produced there have no valid alternative. For them they either pay what Cobra is asking or close. You could imagine this may reflect in the pricing. There is no other factory who can build the quantity of boards in that quality at the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by basher View Post
    But I'd also be tempted to ask why are you damaging kit so easily?
    If production boards were so disposable why do we get people like Big Wave Dave proudly claiming he's still on 2005 kit?
    People sail differently. Some people just sail up and down and avoid risks, others jump at different highths, try moves and take other risks in waves, shorebreak, rocks, travel, etc. Ive had people who actually just sail up and down but still said theyd want the security of something strong just in case not to ruin a day or few days sailing whilst on holiday. They just make a calculation how much they spend in total on windsurfing, devide that by the number of days sailing so say every day theyll miss because of equipment failure will cost me this much and from that decide if a stronger board is a good investment or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by basher View Post
    I quite like the idea that, if I did break it or if a truck ran over it
    You could also get a board that would survive a car drive over it, like recently happened in Holland.

    Quote Originally Posted by basher View Post
    I could go and buy another one, exactly the same.
    That depends on the tolerances they work to at the production facility. And also on availability. It may well be discontinued. With a CNC made custom you could always get the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by basher View Post
    Custom boards are great when they are fine-tuned to specific needs and certain sailing conditions. In the long term you can develop a good relationship between you and a shaper to the point where you start to get the right sort of board for you albeit perhaps after a few tries. You can also design your own graphics, and the whole process then feels like something special and more personal.
    But don't kid yourself.
    I think people are either custom board types, or they're not.
    With a production board you are stuck to a certain amount of random shapes and sizes. With a custom, the possibilities are endless. No need to go outside the box, that happens very rarily. But to go in between ranges, mixes of shapes or sizes, can be very usefull.

    To decide on the right shape it is very usefull to essential to know which boards the customer owns or has sailed. I try to keep track of all boards available or will find out. If the customer has a custom from another shaper, I will ask him for measurements and pictures from 3 sides of the board. With some measurements I can work out the other dimensions from the pictures. Then this is the basis to start from. For example the demands of Rod and Cheech appeared to be quite similar at first, wanting a big wave board for a wide range of conditions; early planing and wave riding. Still getting a feeling for their sailing by what they liked of other boards, the shapes ended up being different solutions. And customers get garantee on this being right for them or will discuss the risk with the customer, in any case if it would not work out to the customers satisfaction, a solution will be arranged.

    What I do not like is someone saying stuff like: I want a board with 100L volume, max 58 wide and 230 long. I could do it but the board will not be right. So I try to convince the customer to do it my way in which he will off course get garantee. If not, I may not do it. Some people may not understand this but I have learned my lesson there when the customer than 6 months later tried a "normal" Witchcraft, found that it did actually worked much better but then was stuck with an unsellable board. And even if sold cheap, it will continue to raise questions for many years after. Otherwise I have a much higher demand for used boards, especially HDD, than available. So the resale value is quite stable. If a board was made for more specific customers needs, it is bound to have less competition in this area either so may end up keeping its value very well or at least as well. It may take longer to get sold but it may also be that there is someone out there whos been looking for ages for such a board.
    Bouke
    Witchcraft Windsurfing Fuerteventura

  4. #25
    Senior Member Jeroensurf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod View Post
    Interesting Jeroen. Did the crack go right through to the foam?
    The wack from the mast on the nose didnt, and I could that fix temporarly with glass and superglue but the hit from the rock getting out of the water did.
    The HDD are very strong, and probably stronger as most but somehow I ended up repairing my HDD more as the SDT or my Flextail in CBC.
    I,m not much of a board breaker. If they do crack its just by sailing a lot. I sail most of the time sandy beaches and I,m not much of a jumper so for me just the construction wouldnt be for me a reason to buy a certain product. the shape has to suit you as well.
    In some ways and sizes I really really like the shapes from Bouke and in other conditions I prever other things. Having the board that works for you seems to me even more important as getting the strongest of the strongest.
    Just my2cents.
    188x92kg 43y old, Supper/Windsurfer.

    Witchcraft Flextail 104l + Witchcraft V4 86l HDD

    2016/17 Hotsails KS3: 5.5+5.2+4.9+4.6+4.0+3.4 Ultra + Kauli + CAAS masts, AL360+ TL cont@ct booms lots of fins.

    SUP Starboard 2015 Airborne 8.8x31.5x123l / Pro8.5x29x112l / Race14x25 / 2012 AST Coastrunner 14x28 / Gong9.4x29x135 Freak

  5. #26
    Senior Member Witchcraft's Avatar
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    About nose damages, first of all with Dyneema, if there is damage it will be limited and a repair can pretty much always can wait till there is a windless period. Possibly it needs to be sealed with some superglue before continueing sailing but that is quickly done. It is like the steel in concrete, the concrete may break but the steel will keep it together. Since Dyneema can not be sanded, it needs to be covered with glass fibre. And glass fibre breaks a lot sooner even if for impact it is lots better than carbon. Since 3 years we are adding more glass fibre on the nose than we did before and we are also putting another layer of Dyneema under the sandwich so nose damages happen even less now.

    Still at some point if there is enough energy, something will have to go. Either the board or the mast. And a mast can not be repaired so the damage is likely to more expensive than a (minor) board repair.
    Bouke
    Witchcraft Windsurfing Fuerteventura

  6. #27
    Super Moderator Arf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchcraft View Post
    And glass fibre breaks a lot sooner even if for impact it is lots better than carbon. Since 3 years we are adding more glass fibre on the nose than we did before and we are also putting another layer of Dyneema under the sandwich so nose damages happen even less now.
    Interesting.. my boards noses have always lived a life of peril.
    The goya quad's nose I smashed in quite early, and did a repair with lots of layers of glass and epoxy. Since then, there have been so many times I was sure I must have destroyed it again, but it has taken its punishment well and survived.

    I would very much like a custom high wind board, but the amount of use it will get cannot justify the cost. The first custom shaped surfboard I had was in Cape Town, the shaper came to the beach to watch me surf for an hour to help with his shaping decisions, it cost R600.. 35?

    Overall I think the goya quad is tough in terms of snappage and creasing, the only issue I have is that I often get little 1cm long tears in the bottom, mostly from rocky reefs like at St Margarets and also from shingle shoredump landings I guess. The skin of the witchcraft HDD I had definitely seemed more resistant this this kind of damage.
    * -Scourge of the Seven Seas-*

  7. #28
    Senior Member Witchcraft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arf View Post
    Interesting.. my boards noses have always lived a life of peril.
    The goya quad's nose I smashed in quite early, and did a repair with lots of layers of glass and epoxy. Since then, there have been so many times I was sure I must have destroyed it again, but it has taken its punishment well and survived.
    Yes, glass is brittle compared to Dyneema but its actually quite impact resistant compared to carbon or carbon kevlar and it is cheap so adding a few layers of off cuts does not cost much if anything but a bit of work. Then it is not a huge area that needs reinforcing so the weight penalty is limited.
    Bouke
    Witchcraft Windsurfing Fuerteventura

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