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7th January 2015, 12:59 AM #1
- Join Date
- Jul 2004
Are waveboards getting sinkier or wider?
When the multis first appeared most people agreed that we could now use bigger volume boards. Most people also agreed that this was a good thing. Now looking at say the current starboard kode waves the volume to width ratio seems to have decreased a lot, with for example the 72 litre being 56 cm wide. That's the same width as my 80 litre kode single from 2012.
If I want a bit of reserve volume (oops!) and choose the 88 litre I will have to deal with all of 60.5 cm of width. Based on my previous experience with width I wouldn't really want anything wider than 58 cm on a waveboard. But in the kode wave range that would leave me with no more than 77 litres. (And it seems to almost the same with say the Fanatic Triwaves.)
Having recently felt half submerged a quarter of the time on a board that's (nominally) almost ten litres bigger, that doesn't sound tempting - at least not for heavily loaded winter sailing. I do agree that volume is less important when planing. And I don't need a wide board for stability. But floating a bit higher does make it easier to get planing in shitty conditions and may help you get home if you are caught out of wind at dusk. It can also be good for no pro tacking.
What do you think about this trend? Do the flatter decks have any real upside? And do I have to point out that my technique is mostly fine thank you to get relevant answers?
Last edited by boards_Tomas; 7th January 2015 at 01:08 AM.The infamous wavewriter
7th January 2015, 07:49 AM #2
- Join Date
- Sep 2004
I think that you might be giving volume to much attention when it comes to how sinky a board feels. Last year on Maui, I sailed the Quatro KT 83 and LS 84 right after each other.
The KT 83 was a lot sinkier, it felt like a 78 litre board compared with the LS. It is much more about how the thickness of the shape is distributed, rail and tail design and overall balance of the board.
But yes, I also have a slight feeling that a 2015 75 litre board many times will feel, and sail, smaller than a 2005 board would.
7th January 2015, 08:26 AM #3
- Join Date
- Jun 2014
- Ringkøbing fjord denmark
7th January 2015, 09:23 AM #4
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
Good question, Tomas. One part of it is as Masse says that some boards can feel sinkier due to the design. But boards have also gotten far wider. This actually started already with the EVO. The EVO was mostly marketed as a board for "bad" conditions and the extra width made it more effective there. But in particularly later models got better and better for good stuff and faster wave riding too. But you still had to carry the width. And at least to some extend, how much width you can handle depends on the speed of the wave riding. So taking out and EVO in mast+ dtl wave meant dealing with less also having less volume than if you would have been on a more classic shape.
At the same time shapes got better though, not only because multi fins came along. Regular style boards got wider too without really hurting control or ability to carve at higher speeds. Partly, riding styles also changed.
Multi fins then exaggerated this. If you look at a pre-EVO 75 liter wave boards, width could could be say 53-54cms (sometimes narrower, sometimes wider). An EVO 75 was a whopping 56cm. Now, this is considered normal or even towards the narrow side and most 75 liter boards (I guess - have not collected the statistics for the market....) are rather between 56 and 57.
But as mentioned, except for some very particular conditions for some very particular riders, I don't think we lost anything. Board control is rather better than with the older narrower boards (at the same volume) and also far less related to width that one might think. My normal range of board sizes/widths is 66-80 liters and 54 to 58cms. In many cases the 58cm board is more comfy in high wind choppy stuff. And with possible exception for VERY fast breaks, the wider boards handle good waves too. For example, very ,very few breaks in Sweden allow super fast riding speeds. Usually you rather tend to need quick acceleration and some extra board power in the turns, even on a big and windy day. This is also reflected in that people tend to be on even bigger boards measured in volume nowadays, which means A LOT wide than 15 years ago. And at that time wave riding competence has generally gone up and more people are riding better, faster and more radically everywhere.
Below is fx one of the best Swedish breaks with one of the most serious dtl riding on a rather windy day (I was on 3.4 and 4.0). I'm on my 80 liter 58cm wide board and it was just perfect both on the wave and out the back, overpowered in the nasty chop (and I even tend to be on smaller board than most). It's kind of interesting to think about that this board is almost 3cms wider than the EVO 70 that was my main board for so long - and at the time even the EVO 70 was considered wide....
Last edited by Ola H.; 7th January 2015 at 09:25 AM.Ola H.
– Simmer Style Boards and Sails –
7th January 2015, 09:28 AM #5
This is another question about board size, so perhaps read the thread that Alphie started.
I think board size is something you need to get your head round nowadays, taking all factors into consideration – and not just volume.
Volume measurement still gives you an absolute measure of sinkiness when you are trying to go small, but board width is the other factor in determining how floaty the 'footprint' of the board is in the water.
The width, along with the rocker, then determine how 'tippy' a board is and that affects how sinky we feel the board to be, especially when slogging or underpowered.
To answer the question, I think there's always been several ways to make a good board and widths have often varied a lot for wavebands of the same labelled volume. Width under the straps is also a key factor for sinkiness, perhaps more than measuring the wide point of the board, so the one foot off tail width measurement is another useful one.
But you are right in the way the Kode wave range has changed in recent seasons – some of the low volume sizes in the Kode wave are now the same width as higher volume NuEvos for example.
Presumably this development in the Kode wave range is something to do with Koster getting bigger.
The Kode freewave or freestyle/wave range has changed too, but following different path.
Last edited by basher; 7th January 2015 at 11:40 AM. Reason: sinkiness, not silkiness.Main boards: Flare 101, NuEvo 86, UltraKode 80, Reactor 82, NuEvo 73. Powered by Severne Blades and S1s.
7th January 2015, 09:43 AM #6
Interesting point for this thread. I think we should focus on tail width at 30cm as that has a massive impact on sinkyness. Maybe the tails are getting a bit narrower on the new boards and the wide point is also getting narrower or vice versa?
The Evos worked so well due to a wider shape but the wide tail was what made all the difference. I had an Evo 70 but reckon it had the float of a 75L. Now I have 74L quad but only sail it on 4.0 days as my bigger/wider boards are easier to sail unless it is nuking.
7th January 2015, 10:02 AM #7
I,m with Steve on the tailwidth.
My flikka was 228x58x84l the Goya Quad is almost identical in length, exactly the same in volume and width. The Flikka has a bit more rocker, but the BIG main difference is the the tail is 2cm wider and a rounded pin instead of a pulled in one. This made it a lot easier to sail on in sub planing conditions and in keeping speed at weak waves while it still works well in faster waves.188x90kg 42y old, Supper/Windsurfer.
Witchcraft Fextail 96l + Witchcraft V4 HDD + 2015 Goya Quad 118
2014/15/16 Hotsails Firelight 6.0 KS3: 5.5+5.2+4.9+4.6+4.0+Firelight3.4 Ultra + Kauli + CAAS masts, AL360+ TL cont@ct booms lots of fins.
SUP Starboard 2015 Airborne 8.8x31.5x123l / Pro8.5x29x112l / Race14x25 / 2012 AST Coastrunner 14x28 / Gong9.4x29x135 Freak