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  1. #15
    Senior Member max111's Avatar
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    ok had another think about this and if i want to tighten the turn up

    i find if i lean the mast tip outwards slightly to enable me to have some more room to lean further into the turn this will tighten the turn up considerable ( i had some instruction on this lately at Rhossy by Ben on a clinic he held and was very pleased with the results a few little changes in my bottom turn made to my top turns )

    but as in all sport if you are thinking about it whilst trying to do it you are too late and have missed the critical moment you need to anticipate the next move and be planning for the next one

  2. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr masse View Post
    I gave this a couple of looks a while ago and it did help me - http://mpora.com/videos/AAd8w8a7t814...HUo2T4DVCRf.97
    Check the bend of the mast arm around 37 seconds! Of course both this and the other video shows people with very good bottom turning and in waves that are quite good seen from where I'm coming from. And this provides for much higher speed and generally less need to sheet in (open the clew) by all available means. But do check out around 37 seconds though.
    The infamous wavewriter

  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by max111 View Post
    ok had another think about this and if i want to tighten the turn up i find if i lean the mast tip outwards slightly to enable me to have some more room to lean further into the turn this will tighten the turn up considerable
    I'm not quite sure what you mean by leaning the mast tip outward, but I guess it more or less amounts to swinging the rig to the outside and back while your body goes to the inside and forward. (Not very different from what happens in a good gybe.) The sail will indeed swing out and back quite naturally as you twist your body and try to sheet in clew first. And the mast hand will also naturally bend more than the front hand. But - and this is my point - you can exaggerate the pulling in for a more open clew. Carlos from Cutre actually seem to pull the mast hand right into his body also when doing more shallow and often quite slow but multiple turns (on a wave most other people can't ride at all.) He actually often goes clew first with his mast elbow pointing straight down. It may mostly be done to get maximum mfp for a flat board but does simultaneously allow for a harder sheeting if needed.

    I will try and shut up soon, but consider for a second how you sheet in on entering a bottom turn. It's bow and arrow style with the mast arm stretched as if holding a bow, and the boom hand bent as if holding the arrow. By doing the opposite movement with each hand you can sheet much harder. Now why shouldn't the same apply in clew first mode, but now with the two arms having changed roles?
    Last edited by boards_Tomas; 26th May 2015 at 10:13 PM.
    The infamous wavewriter

  4. #18
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    Here's the picture (of one if my spectacular no-wave rides) that really got me thinking about arm bend. My first thought was that the twist of my body looked pretty radical. My second thought was that the sail could have been opened a lot more just by bending the correct arm. I can hold the position in the picture for a long stretch. But it will not take me sufficiently close to the wind to do a decent top turn in very onshore conditions.

    In the picture I'm actually still on a rather broad reach (a regular reach would take me out of the picture to the right). But what explains the bent boom arm? It could of course be a habit from gybing where you keep the boom arm bent until the sail goes light and you push it away hard to start the rotation. A more interesting explaination could be that if your'e not able to sheet in (early) enough when heading up clew first you will loose power in the sail and pull in on the front arm to have something to support your body. Which will kill whatever may have been left of power in the sail. Which will next back wind and slam you to the floor! Jajaja

    I also suspect that carving off the front foot becomes increasingly difficult as you twist your body. I do run my board kind of flat in the picture. If you look the picture posted by SB on page 2, you will see that her front foot is almost pulled out of the strap. Not meaning to criticize - just making a point.

    Note that I'm not saying that you always need to sheet in to the maximum in clew first mode. But making full use of your arms can allow you to sheet as hard as before with less twist of the body. Or, when needed, sheet in harder with the same amount body twist.
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    Last edited by boards_Tomas; 28th May 2015 at 10:21 AM.
    The infamous wavewriter

  5. #19
    Most advice about wave riding in onshore conditions assumes that there is still a wave to ride as in a wave that has slope and push to be harnessed to help add to the wind, even if you are heading downwind to the true wind.
    It's the push of the wave that helps you have an apparent wind flowing over the sail, giving you more sheeting angle options.

    In the picture above, that's what I would call 'an invisible wave' and it has little slope or push.

    So when sailing in those conditions, the apparent wind in your sail is entirely down to the true wind plus the created wind from your board speed. The starting point in those conditions is to pick a fast rocker board that is big enough to get you planing early and to keep you there.

    At that point, we can maybe talk about sheeting angles for the rig, clew-first or otherwise. But the better advice is to just get out there and try and have fun.
    I'd say keep practicing to see what you can do in those conditions by turning a lot and not 'mowing the lawn' on long reaches as most tend to do on flat days. When you find you can keep planing in most of those turns, you'll know you are getting the board trim and rig sheeting angles right.

    And I think this is actually how most people learn this stuff. The body contortions and sheeting angle stuff are too complex to really explain on paper.
    Now back in the UK.

  6. #20
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    I don't really disagree with anything you say Basher. These are complex moves and the terminology soon becomes confused when things start going clew first and switch stance. But for me at least, engaging in a discussion (?) about technique makes me think things through to the extent that I may actually try something new on the water. I'm older than most wavesailors but not the only one stuck in a groove.

    As you can see from the picture below (a very small Pozo day, so still not much wave to speak of) my rig handling has improved somewhat although - as Harald has noted - my elbows are flaring out rather than pointing down to increase mfp. And my mast hand is placed too close to the mast. So now I will work on those things as well. I should add that I've recently have had a few eureka moments during front side turns, but am still not quite sure what I did right. Was it the pulled in mast hand, a lucky windshift or - perhaps - the tiny twins (if only we could get another fin discussion on this forum...)? In that sense I started this thread a bit early.

    Do you actually believe a thread like this can become counterproductive, like in leading the flock astray? As long as we are honest about our level (better than many but don't even reach the top guys to the top of their boots) and conditions (mostly no better than Pozo which is pretty onshore and with a wave that "peels" the wrong way for frontside riding), I struggle to see that anyone can be harmed by a thread like this. Although it appearantly can't compete with gossip for popularity!
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    Last edited by boards_Tomas; 28th May 2015 at 03:17 PM.
    The infamous wavewriter

  7. #21
    Senior Member TerryTibbs's Avatar
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    Extend your front arm more and sheet in with your back hand at this stage of the turn. This will effectively point the tip of the mast further forwards, keep speed, but also allow the board to turn back up the wave a bit easier. A Bit like the picture below. This is more in cross-shore conditions than you're talking about, but it shows how the mast is pointing forwards and the sail is sheeted in more.

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    Wish I was better, but don't we all?!

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