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  1. #1
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    Top turn - How to shift bachand towards lines?

    Late edit: I tried to delete this post but couldn't. You may look here for a better explaination of the problem and a possible solution:

    http://forums.boards.mpora.com/showt...it-mean/page21

    I've succeded in getting more speed down the wave (chop ) by not trying to turn tight until I'm more or less in the flats. (Top tip from OlaH for really onshore conditions.). And it seems I can still complete a full 180 degrees or so with decent speed by pushing harder once I've got rail grip. Getting back winded hasn't been a problem for some time.

    The challenge now is to shift the back hand back towards the harness lines to open up the sail in the top turn. With the higher speed in the bottom turn everything happens so fast and there is generally a lot of pull on the back hand in the top turn so moving the hand seems impossible. I imagine it would be easier on a real wave with a bit of angle and push to get more speed through the top turn, but conditions are what they are. (Crap.) I suppose that turning my head and shoulders more and earlier and carving harder off the tail could help, but are there other tips out there?
    Last edited by boards_Tomas; 23rd October 2015 at 09:38 AM.
    The infamous wavewriter

  2. #2
    I tried to answer this in the pub last night but we had a poor signal.

    In a top turn, the challenge is not to move the hands, but to do a top turn. It's important to focus on the right thing here.
    What you are trying to do in a top turn is to redirect the board.
    And that is about unloading the backfoot – which was carving hard in the bottom turn – and instead loading the windward rail with the front foot.

    The loads on our feet often relate to the front or back hand, but to load the front foot in a top turn redirect you just need to look back upwind to where you want to go and then load the front foot hard. Pulling on the front arm will help this redirect as it helps rig load push down on the windward rail (via your front foot).

    Don't worry about moving the back hand (as per the thread title here) – if you want, you can let go the back hand completely (although that's a bit naff to see, because it's what learners are told to do). The pro guys do this a bit more subtlely, by sliding their hands forward as a pair – but the front hand does most of the work in the top turn, just as the back hand did most of the work in the bottom turn.
    Last edited by basher; 23rd October 2015 at 10:19 PM.
    I have some kit for sale, to make space. Nuevo 86 2014, 490, Nuevo 73 2013 550, Severne Blade 2015 5.0 and 3.7. All VGC or little used. Don't use private message system as I don't get messages via here contact via the weather thread!

  3. #3
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    [QUOTE=basher;1028294) Don't worry about moving the back hand (as per the thread title here) – if you want, you can let go the back hand completely (although that's a bit naff to see, because it's what learners are told to do). The pro guys do this a bit more subtlely, by sliding their hands forward as a pair – but the front hand does most of the work in the top turn, just as the back hand did most of the work in the bottom turn.[/QUOTE]

    As said this is all certainly easier on a better wave, and - importantly - with less power in the sail. Being very well powered gets me to the waves (I need to invent a name for the sort open ocean crap I try to ride up here - how about water holes?). Letting go off the back hand is out of the question when you're clew first and the sail is pulling very hard. I guess he sail would swing violently around and I would smack the wave with my face. So I'm still looking for a way to depower the sail before moving my backhand or even sliding both hands forwards as you say pros do.

    If someone would be kind enough to ask the man or woman upstairs to import my long post from the other thread, both threads could stay slightly more on topic.
    The infamous wavewriter

  4. #4
    Senior Member bman18's Avatar
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    Here's an example of Victor on a smallish wave where you see clearly his (back)hand movement. At the end of the turn he moves his backhand back again to move the rig forward.
    But I think equally important is how low he goes in the 3rd and 4th image and where he's looking.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    49 years young @ 85kg.

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  5. #5
    Tomas,
    I think if we are going to get any further with this discussion then we need a video of you on a wave. – Or perhaps a video of someone doing what you think you are doing.


    If you are still feeling the sail 'pulling very hard' then that might be because you are not generating enough speed when heading along the wave.
    Redirecting the board in a top turn is very much part of a fluid movement, done with the board travelling at some speed. (If you are pushing the pram down the line or just sailing in slow mo clew first then the sail probably does feel a lot heavier.)

    If so, then maybe you need to concentrate on board speed, not the redirect or the bent elbow thing.
    Or are we talking at cross-purposes here?

    I can't think of how the wave could 'smack you in the face'.
    I have some kit for sale, to make space. Nuevo 86 2014, 490, Nuevo 73 2013 550, Severne Blade 2015 5.0 and 3.7. All VGC or little used. Don't use private message system as I don't get messages via here contact via the weather thread!

  6. #6
    Senior Member bman18's Avatar
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    The last photo in the sequence from above (can add 5 attachments max. each post it seems).
    Click image for larger version. 

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    And here another example from the same session. See how his hand has moved back before ending his top turn.
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    And finally something to practice when you've got your top turn dialed in....
    Click image for larger version. 

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    49 years young @ 85kg.

    WitchCraft Wave HDD 83l + K4 Stubby 14cm + K4 Ezzy 2 12cm
    WitchCraft Flextail CBC 90l + K4 Stubby 15cm + K4 Ezzy 2 14cm
    RRD COTAN 7'11" Wide Classic
    Witchcraft Slayer & Karma sails and masts from 3.3m to 5.2m - Tecnolimits XTR

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bman18 View Post
    Here's an example of Victor on a smallish wave where you see clearly his (back)hand movement. At the end of the turn he moves his backhand back again to move the rig forward.
    But I think equally important is how low he goes in the 3rd and 4th image and where he's looking.

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    Thank you Man! I believe the clue is to allow the clew to point almost straight at the wind before moving the back hand. This will mostly happen automatically as you turn up the wave. But if you don't turn far enough or are still too sheeted for some reason, I don't see why extending the mast arm or pulling on the boom arm would not help. Will try then rent a helicopter with a photographer to prove it.

    PS: I really don't get it why Basher keeps thinking I am such a crap sailor just because I keep saying that I am!
    The infamous wavewriter

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