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  1. #8
    Senior Member Duncan Adam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    To be honest I think going with the GPX will be the better option in this case. I believe they have done a fair bit of work over the years to get it close to a cam sail performance.
    2018 Sessions: Speed/Slalom 03, B&J/Wave 02, SUP/WindSUP 00
    2017 Sessions: Speed/Slalom 12, B&J/Wave 09, SUP/WindSUP 01
    2016 Sessions: Speed/Slalom 20, B&J/Wave 23, SUP/WindSUP 03

  2. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    I have a North Ram 8.5m tricam. Race sails have bigger wind range to cope with wind variations when sailing, and have worse bottom end. For free riding I think the choice is more like 7.8m rotational vs 8.5m race.

  3. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    I had a look on the GPS Speedsurfing website to see what speeds people have been posting with the GPX, but there was only 1 session so tells us nothing. I think the riders weight, wind speed and water state has an important bearing on which sail to get.
    Heavier sailor in stronger winds on flat water get the race sail. Although a local sailor who is 95kg+ sails an Ezzy Cheetah (no cam) 8.5m in winds I use a 7.5m and he is no slouch.

  4. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Maker View Post
    For free riding I think the choice is more like 7.8m rotational vs 8.5m race.
    I agree. The problem for SocalSailor is HSM do a 8m race and the next size up is a 9m which sets on a 490 mast.

  5. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by socalsailor View Post
    Anyone have any experience with no cam freerace sails in the big sizes (7.8-8.5)? I've heard that in the smaller sizes the no cam sails are worth looking at. What about in the bigger sizes? How much top end speed would I give up with a no cam sail?

    I'm trying to decide between a Hotsails Maui GPX (no cam) and GPS (4 cam) in an 8.0 for my (oldish) iSonic 117 (75 cm wide). I'm sticking to this brand as I already have one of their 100% carbon masts, and have the budget for a new sail but not a new mast.

    I might try and do some amateur racing at some point, but currently I'm just a weekend warrior who likes to drag race others and check my speed on a GPS.
    It's too bad HSM does not have a free race in the lineup any longer, then your problem might solve itself!
    Speed-wise I only have data for 6.6 and under (I have a GPS 8.0 but have not touched it in a year: it is windy here!) but are the best data I ever collected. After a couple of months of measuring:

    2" Max speed:

    Patrik 100 GPS 6.6: Range is 26.5 to 29.1 knots
    Patrik 100 SpeedFreak 6.5: 22.2-25.1
    CA 52 GPS 6.0: 26-28.6
    CA 52 Firelight 5.0 (wave sail!): max ever this year at 29.6 (in higher winds)

    10" Max speed: Subtract 0.5-2.5 knots from the above. Cam sails have clearly the narrower difference 2" to 10".

    Loop between markers: P100 + GPS 6.6 is fastest, CA 52 with Firelight slowest (and Firelight is not very pleasant with the CA, board is bouncing and hard to control).

    The CAM advantage is not that huge (although 3-4 knots GPS vs Speedfreak is a lot). The GPX should be faster than the SpeedFreak, and even in a 8.0 the advantage it has in the transitions might be well worth it!

    PS For some unknown reasons I am doing pretty bad speed-wise, I seem to have lost 2-3 knots of max speed in respect to 2-3 years ago ...
    Last edited by duzzi; 6th June 2016 at 02:06 AM.

  6. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Berkeley Ca.
    Speed is almost always related to setup, and changing boards or sails, fins or body weight, will affect the setup a whole lot in the quest for mph speed.
    Sometimes, getting used to a low boom will inhibit top speed, while making windsurfing generally easier overall.
    Sometimes, going with too much downhaul will slow you down, as it's a fine line between top speed and fighting the rig and pushing the board's nose down, and flapping in the wind causing drag.
    We should assume your fins are all top notch and less than 2 season's old? G-10 shows micro delams in as little as 10 days of sailing, at the junction between the base and the actual fin.
    By your posts, I can assume you're in the San Francisco area? Have you sailed any of the slalom races at St Francis Yacht Club? 6 and 8 ball downwind slalom is a good measure for flat out boatspeed.

  7. #14
    Senior Member Graemef's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Seabrook Kent
    I've got a fair deal of experience with the two types of sail, I've got an 8.5 no cam, I keep meaning to bung up on ebay because it didn't do what I wanted it to which was to act as a change down sail from my 9.5 twin cam race, but I'm using it for course racing which involves going upwind which is where the difference between the two types of sail is greatest.

    Across the wind or even down, I doubt at this stage you'd be experienced enough to notice any difference so go no cam, these days modern no cams are so much better than they were in the days before cams were invented.

    What Cams principally do is make the sail entry very stable and they lock the flow point of the sail forward which suits the slower period going upwind when pressures on the sails stability are greatest. Once you're moving fast, gusts, lifts and header pressure changes don't affect the sail quite as much as much.

    In competition with fixed marks likely to put pressure on the rig by making the rider have to sail outside of his her comfort zone, then cams are pretty essential, freerding you can go where you like, bear off head up, turn around.. no cams.. easy life. Cams aint always easy to recover from they're a bitch to gybe with the snap on snap off pull, the big luff sleeve fills up with water if you stack it and the rigs heavier, so unless you have a genuine competitive urge to race and don't drop your rig that often, I wouldn't bother.

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