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  1. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by boards_Tomas View Post
    Over sheeting can be good or bad depending on it's use but I don't think we need to make a distinction between (correct) sheeting and controlling the power in the sail.

    Looking at good sailors in onshore conditions it's my impression that the need for oversheeting on entry to set the rail is smaller than you may believe. There is also a risk of going more or less directly from being oversheeted when turning down the wave to being oversheeted in clew first mode trying to climb back up the wave. First attempts at going frontside in onshore conditions almost inevitably end with back winding for most people. In order to avoid this you'll be tempted to bang the sail open too early when surfing through down wind. And pushing the clew out too much too soon effectively means oversheeting on the new tack heading back up the wave. Going straight from an oversheeted entry to an equally oversheeted clew first ride means you'll get no drive fom the sail. Furthermore while normal oversheeting on entry helped you turn down wind, oversheeting in clew first mode will hinder you from turning back up the wave on exit and thus be counterproductive. And especially so if you don't lift the clew high and bring the coe rearwards.

    NOTE here that I'm talking about seriously onshore conditions where in order to make it all the way around and back up the wave you need to sail back the way you came from meaning that your old front hand becomes your new back hand and vice versa and that what people normally describe as opening the clew or sheeting out eventually amounts to sheeting in.

    oooh,ummm.
    The key thing about wave sailing is 'apparent wind' and that's not even being discussed. Hand movements are almost irrelevant without an understanding of how the rig has different amounts of power in different situations. If the board is being driven in an efficient line then the rig is light in the hands and the over-sheeting or otherwise relates to the apparent wind angle.
    If you generate board speed from the push or slope of the wave, then you can stay sheeted in more, despite onshore conditions.

    When it comes to engaging the rail you need to position body weight well – but the rig load acts through your legs when sheeted in, and, as with a gybe, oversheeting with the back hand when fully-powered takes the rig load down your carving leg onto the rail, so it's essential for a tight turn. The sheeting angle needed however is entirely down to the apparent wind, which in turn is down to your board speed and board direction on the wave, as much as it's about the true wind speed and true wind direction.


    So all this varies from beach to beach, and on different days, and with different ability sailors on their various boards.

    It's therefore very difficult to pass on some front hand or back hand or backleg cure all 'technique tip'.
    – Think instead of the bigger picture, and try and grasp the complex concept of apparent wind. Forget about 'lifting the clew' and other irrelevant distractions.
    If you don't like theory, then instead focus on the practical sessions you score, and feel what's happening in your hands and under your feet. On a wave, try and surf the board with rig power as an added bonus.

    My top tip is that your carving knee should be pointing into the wave. But that's a sign that you are doing it right, rather than an instruction.
    Main boards: Flare 101, NuEvo 86, UltraKode 80, Reactor 82, NuEvo 73. Powered by Severne Blades and S1s.

  2. #30
    Senior Member Mark D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by max111 View Post
    think this link will work ?

    https://www.facebook.com/k800ben/vid...4937485050778/

    i'm guessing if you could keep the speed Ben does and do that sort of turn at the end of the bottom turn all would be good ?

    this is what he taught me to do this was a pretty onshore day at Rhosneigr
    Good link Max, thanks for that, I enjoyed watching it. Sometimes a good old vid tells you a whole lot more than words. The leaning in tip is a good practical one to think about and try, echoing Ola's earlier post in the thread. I like the finesse Ben uses when initiating the rail set and hold. Thanks for an interesting thread Thomas.

    I will enjoy adding it to the mix in my next session. Just missed a good opportunity as the east coast windsurfing machine was working yesterday! Only a lucky trio managed to catch it. Work does get in the way.
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  3. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by max111 View Post

    https://www.facebook.com/k800ben/vid...4937485050778/

    i'm guessing if you could keep the speed Ben does and do that sort of turn at the end of the bottom turn all would be good ?
    I guess so! But check his rig position at -24 seconds where he goes totally vertical into a wave threesixty or whatsitsname. That is what I call rig out and back or just clew high and which Somebody (not everybody I hope) refuses to recognize for some obscure reason. This thread was about holding the rail. But pointing really high to get back up a wave in onshore conditions is a skill that is not only needed for pros doing new school tricks but just as much for beginners that can not generate or hold enough speed through the bottom turn to keep the apparant wind at a favourable angle.
    The infamous wavewriter

  4. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by boards_Tomas View Post
    ...Namely that the back hand is sometimes (most of the times?) not moved back until well down the wave.
    Also think about the hand move as partly sliding the rig forwards through the back hand, not only putting the hand further back the boom. This is something I often forget myself but when I do it the bottom turn becomes much more dynamic.
    Ola H.

    Simmer Style Boards and Sails

  5. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ola H. View Post
    Also think about the hand move as partly sliding the rig forwards through the back hand, not only putting the hand further back the boom. This is something I often forget myself but when I do it the bottom turn becomes much more dynamic.
    Not sure how to formulate this question but it's about what should happen just after sheeting in for the bottom turn. I'm not great at sheeting in but know and like the feeling of getting tipped into the turn. My question concerns what should happen to the rig if you want to turn really tight and let your body "fall to the inside". For this to happen you have - as far as I can see - to get the rig out of the way. Is it possible to say how you think about handling the rig (or more indirectly about rotating your upper body or something) as you fall into a tight bottom turn on an onshore wave? It's not like I don't hear Bashers "go by feel-mantra" but we're talking about a pretty radical manouvre here where the outcome will often be governed by what you do during the first very few seconds. Going wide is easy!
    Last edited by boards_Tomas; 9th January 2017 at 05:36 PM.
    The infamous wavewriter

  6. #34
    Senior Member max111's Avatar
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    Tomas this kid throws it around suberbly !

    can you see how he is shifting his body weight around to change direction quick and with some style the transistion is swift but easy on the eye and not disjointed or snatched

    i also notice his weight comes back further down the board on the entry into the top turn so he then pivots round himself

    https://www.facebook.com/ShamalWinds...8726842815110/
    Last edited by max111; 9th January 2017 at 05:48 PM.

  7. #35
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    Thanks everyone for comments, especially OlaH who often seem to find the right way to put it. Had a few very nice "fall in" bottom turns today on some well shaped onshore microwaves. It's exactly the superhero feeling I've been longing for. I still do not oversheet efficiently on every entry but at least I've started keeping my front hand further back. Oversheeting seems pretty crucial as to not get into the backseat on entry as Ola noted. I've also confirmed that bottom turns are best done at the bottom. Especially with a freewave (my waveboard's out of service) it's easy to stuff it if you try to turn too hard off the steeper part of a wave. It's better to just glide down to gather some speed before oversheeting the sail and letting yourself fall into the turn. Rig handling doesn't seem to be a huge deal, but then I've been working on that part for about a year and can swing it well out and back (lift the clew Basher) if needed without much thought. Works on both tacks now. Let's see how smart I'll look on a real wave. The turns I've done today are more like "half gybes" in the flat in front of a wave than surf style wave riding. But it's damn good practice. Heading south again Saturday.

    Late edit: I know that short posts are better, but how can it take ten years to learn to do something that's well explained in all the magazines? (I bought the evo in 2006 to ride waves front side.) Doing a tight gybe is easy. What's the big deal about bottom turning? The trouble for people like me is that we never seem to get the opportunity to surf down a nice wave with a light sail and a good angle. We're either severely overpowered or have to deal with a very onshore wave. Probably both. The massive power makes you go too wide. And the unfavorable angle makes you backwind as you struggle back up to meet the wave. With the expectation of getting slammed it's difficult focus on even pretty basic stuff like oversheeting on entry and leaning - I mean falling - in.
    Last edited by boards_Tomas; 11th January 2017 at 10:48 PM.
    The infamous wavewriter

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