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  1. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by boards_Tomas View Post
    I once started a thread on footsteering (but got little useful response). I argued that focusing on feet is not helpful. Boards are turned by shifting body weight. Especially in toside turns the transfer of weight onto the inside rail follows rather automatically if you just drop your hips to the inside. I believe that much tripping/skipping/nosedigging/bouncing is a penalty for trying to use the feet too actively. It's a bit like hoofing around on the board during gybes.

    Also weighting the front foot becomes a question of how. With good rig control you can use wind power to shift more weight onto the front foot. If instead you just decide that you want more weight on the front foot you're likely to push down on that foot by extending your leg which may upset the board and ultimately bring your weight rearwards. That's my guess anyway.
    Correct, Tomas. See my response above.
    Ola H.

    – Simmer Style Boards and Sails –

  2. #9
    Senior Member
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    Thank you very much for your replies.
    Yes, instead of saying "using your back foot" I should have written "lean more on the back".

    It's always super hard to explain these things with words... again thank you everyone for the time you took to reply.

    I took a couple of screenshots... I guess these somehow show the difference I'm trying to talk about? (big & side on the left, smaller and sideon on the right)

    Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #10
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    This is how it looks from my armchair. Both riders keep a long waterline. The one on the left is going faster and straighter with a more depowered sail. Since the sail is depowered he can shift more body weight forwards. He probably also unloads some weight onto the boom.

    The guy on the right shows a rather extreme body position. Although he may be going slower than the other guy it's still fast by normal standards. It's clearly more onshore and he'll probably have to turn around more than 180 degrees to get vertical. The need to turn so far around in a confined space explains why his hips are dipped so radically to the inside.

    I'm amazed by how far forwards he manages to hold his sail. It's a pretty long stretch and he probably needs to support his body on the boom. Which is probably the whole point of his excercise (maximizing mfp for a flat board). Taking up that position needs a lot of practice and guts. Did someone recently use the term "on the verge of catapulting"? That's where you need to be in order to maximize speed during a down wind turn. I would not say that he's backfooted though. The nose of the board can be expected to rise momentarily later in the turn, but there will normally be little need for conscious transfer of weight to the back foot. I believe. (Hopefully everybody realizes that I'm just a wavewriter who's only just recently began to hit lips on sb tack. We'll have to se about port this winter. It's my impression though that the need for snapping the board around on the tail is the biggest at the very last part of the toside turn in order to hit the lip more vertically. At this stage I don't think I move neither rig or body much. I just whip the board around a few degrees more "under the sail".)

    Note however that although he's started opening up the sail it's still very much forwards and powered up. So it helps keep the nose down. In order complete the remaining 90 degrees he'll have to open the sail much more. This is best done by swinging it out and back on straightish arms while the body goes in the opposite direction.
    Last edited by boards_Tomas; 20th September 2017 at 10:18 AM.
    The infamous wavewriter

  4. #11
    I think you need a sequence of shots before you can draw any conclusions from a photo.
    For a start, one frame of the move tells us nothing about the true wind direction.
    Now back in the UK.

  5. #12
    Senior Member Silicon Beach's Avatar
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    Nether the less ... those two screen shots do actually show what ultimoamore (and I) was talking about quite well.

    In my other post I tried to simplify a complex process by putting figures on it ("maybe 40% back - 60% front" etc) I did this not because I was claiming that it was 'scientifically' accurate, but simply to try and make it more obvious what I was talking about ... and for me it does make sense, and work.

    However, I think that wave riding is something that you can talk about "till you're blue in the face" but what really counts is getting out there, experimenting, and finding out what works for you.

    I think that all good wave sailors ride waves in more-or-less the same way, in terms of how the body, board and rig are positioned / behaving etc but I also think that: 1 - they have their own style 2 - they might explain it completely differently to another expert.
    -----------------------------
    Currently writing the World's first Windsurfing Novel: 'Too Close to the Wind' - watch this space!
    ps check out my musings from El Medano: Life on the Reef
    -----------------------------
    Boards: Quatro Supermini Thrusters: 94 & 85
    Sails: Severne Blades.

  6. #13
    This is an old sequence of me, but I think quite illustrative, also in relation to what I wrote earlier. Again, the front-back balance on the board in a turn will be influenced by the turning radius. Here it is close to dead onshore and I'm entering the turn with some speed rather than first go backside to the top of the wave and almost stop to pivot there. So I go down the wave with some speed (pic 1-2), but due to the onshore I NEED to make a very sharp turn entry right when coming down to the flats. This is done by being relatively backfooted in this early part of the turn, but very importantly also by not pushing much board into the water. The board is angled a lot but not pushed deep into the water (pic 3). Then, when it already has been pivoted towards the preferred direction, pressure is applied forward to gain drive and stability in this straighter part of the turn. Here the weight is again quite far forward, but because it is onshore the sail is also very open (pic 4-5). Then I again try to release the board to pivot it towards the wave (white water in this case... I'm a bit late) which means transferring the weight back (pic 6-7) and the pivot it around i the top turn (pic 8).








    Last edited by Ola H.; 21st September 2017 at 09:54 AM.
    Ola H.

    – Simmer Style Boards and Sails –

  7. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ola H. View Post
    This is an old sequence of me, but I think quite illustrative

    This is very illustrative, as it is the video posted earlier by Bmg253 https://vimeo.com/234196742.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ola H. View Post
    I go down the wave with some speed (pic 1-2), but due to the onshore I NEED to make a very sharp turn entry right when coming down to the flats. This is done by being relatively backfooted in this early part of the turn, but very importantly also by not pushing much board into the water.
    This is what I meant with my initial post: that the stance in side/sideoff bottom is very different from the one in onshore conditions.
    This was not that clear to me, and I assumed that it was pretty much always the same, no matter the wind direction: "forward" as in a planing jibe. This works in side shore; but in onshore the pressure is more "backfooted", which doesn't mean that you have to carve with your backfoot, or that most of the weight is on the back: it's just more back than in a sideshore condition.
    I used to keep the same stance no matter the conditions, and while it worked (somehow... I'm not that good...) in side shore, in onshore I ended up very far in front of the wave: planing, yes, because my weight was center-front, but far away from the wave. So I assume that in onshore you sacrifice speed in the bottom for tighter radius; and, as you clearly show in the picts, when you are past the middle section (that is, when you start being switch stance) you shift your weight forward again so as to keep the speed.
    In side shore I guess you want to stay more forward as the bottom radius is not as important, while keeping speed is...

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