Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 15 to 21 of 25
  1. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    2,488
    I strongly advice you to forget about feet and focus on rig handling when it's really onshore. The clue is to understand that what helps you turning downwind/downwave (rig forwards) will at some point stop you from turning back upwind/upwave (rig rearwards, and even more and with a straighter mast arm than in OlaH's picture). You'll generally have to work hard to keep the nose down. The difference between the downwind and upwind phases is that whereas in the first this is mainly achieved by clever sheeting like on a gybe entry, in the latter phase it's achieved by leaning far forward and to the inside while transferring weight onto the mast foot through the boom. Tightening a turn will follow almost automatically if you just turn your head in the desired direction. That is if you can make the rig cooperate. That's my humble opinion.

    PS Understand that such a toeside turn will/should be finished within two or three seconds. Since the downwind part resembles a gybe entry you'll be helped by muscle memory. Not so on the upwind part. And that's why it's so important to get used to the idea that body and sail needs to change places within a very short time. If instead you focus a lot on "getting things forward" you'll keep reaching the rig that way and be straightlining past the lip.
    Last edited by boards_Tomas; 21st September 2017 at 12:19 PM.
    The infamous wavewriter

  2. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    217
    Quote Originally Posted by boards_Tomas View Post
    I strongly advice you to forget about feet and focus on rig handling when it's really onshore. The clue is to understand that what helps you turning downwind/downwave (rig forwards) will at some point stop you from turning back upwind/upwave (rig rearwards, and even more and with a straighter mast arm than in OlaH's picture). You'll generally have to work hard to keep the nose down. The difference between the downwind and upwind phases is that whereas in the first this is mainly achieved by clever sheeting like on a gybe entry, in the latter phase it's achieved by leaning far forward and to the inside while transferring weight onto the mast foot through the boom. Tightening a turn will follow almost automatically if you just turn your head in the desired direction. That is if you can make the rig cooperate. That's my humble opinion.
    I agree 100%.
    In fact one of the best piece of advice I read on this very forum was about the past-bottom phase: rig back and body forwards. I guess the "rig back" is meant to be "weight onto the mast foot through the boom" instead as you say.

  3. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    2,488
    Yes, but you do actually need to lean the mast towards the tail of the board if it's really onshore and you want to go vertical. And especially if you start to loose speed which is to be expected. When skills and conditions improve the higher speed back up the wave will probably reduce both the need for and the ability to swing the rig around. That's why better waveriders may not give this much thought. It's just a quick swing of the rig that helps them hit the lip without back winding. And since it only last for a split second and may look daft on photos it's not the sort of image that gets published a lot. But for the regular stallers and straighliners in crappy conditions this is The thing to focus on. Twas for me anyway.
    Last edited by boards_Tomas; 21st September 2017 at 01:31 PM.
    The infamous wavewriter

  4. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Silicon Beach View Post
    ......

    However, I think that wave riding is something that you can talk about "till you're blue in the face" but what really counts is getting out there, experimenting, and finding out what works for you.
    .....


    What I find is that some internet advisers are intermediates or those who can often barely gybe, so, with the best of intentions, they attempt to describe what they think they do and tell others to do the same – and the result is we get some cringeworthy advice in threads like these.
    It's one thing to give basic advice on uphauling and footsteering and waterstarting, but in another league to talk about the complexities of down the line waveriding.


    A far better way to learn is to
    a) Get yourself in good conditions by booking a trip somewhere windy.
    b) Mixing up locations sailed to get different sorts of waves.,
    c) Get someone to video you and then take expert advice on what you are obviously doing wrong with the video footage as the starting point for discussion.
    Now back in the UK.

  5. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    2,488
    Quote Originally Posted by basher View Post
    What I find is that some internet advisers are intermediates or those who can often barely gybe, so, with the best of intentions, they attempt to describe what they think they do and tell others to do the same – and the result is we get some cringeworthy advice in threads like these.
    It's one thing to give basic advice on uphauling and footsteering and waterstarting, but in another league to talk about the complexities of down the line waveriding.


    A far better way to learn is to
    a) Get yourself in good conditions by booking a trip somewhere windy.
    b) Mixing up locations sailed to get different sorts of waves.,
    c) Get someone to video you and then take expert advice on what you are obviously doing wrong with the video footage as the starting point for discussion.
    I partly disagree. I'm an expert gyber and have been for years. That's not because I have better conditions than others but because I early (around 1986) figured out a few things that work. Travelling to places with wind and waves is a necessary condition to become a waverider. But it's not sufficient. Just like with gybing people can make the same mistakes over and over again. And don't expect experts to offer unsolicited advice. Many couldn't even if they wanted to.

    Note also that hitting a single lip in really onshore conditions is an excercise that's completed in a few seconds. There's not a lot of real dtl wavesurfing going on and little time for learning by doing. It's almost like gybing on a piece of swell except that you don't flip the rig but keep rotating it. And just like after a sail flip the mast will/should be tilted rearwards when you've turned through downwind. (Yes, don't forget the apparent wind blah blah.) It puzzles me why the idea of tilting the rig back is so hard to grasp. Rig back is standard procedure to steer a board upwind. Just as rig forwards is for heading downwind. The ability to combine those two by rotating body and shoulders in a continuous motion as you go through the turn is an essential skill. And it's really not that hard if you just grasp the idea. Do you think all the pwa lurkers on here would let me get away with giving false advice? (****, I hope I didn't just wake somebody up!)
    Last edited by boards_Tomas; 21st September 2017 at 06:14 PM.
    The infamous wavewriter

  6. #20
    Senior Member Silicon Beach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    El Médano, Tenerife
    Posts
    3,828
    So, reading Ola's post and looking at his screen shots it seems to me like he's splitting the onshore bottom turn sequence into the same three phases that I do (and described in my first post on this thread), with basically the same weight distribution ... which I find encouraging :-)

    PHASE ONE in my post ("… pivot the board around to frontside as tight as possible using lots of back foot (maybe 80% back - 20% front)" =
    Quote Originally Posted by Ola H. View Post
    So I go down the wave with some speed (pic 1-2), but due to the onshore I NEED to make a very sharp turn entry right when coming down to the flats. This is done by being relatively backfooted in this early part of the turn, but very importantly also by not pushing much board into the water. The board is angled a lot but not pushed deep into the water (pic 3).

    PHASE TWO in my post "transfer my weight to the front foot (maybe 40% back - 60% front)" =
    Quote Originally Posted by Ola H. View Post
    Then, when it already has been pivoted towards the preferred direction, pressure is applied forward to gain drive and stability in this straighter part of the turn. Here the weight is again quite far forward, but because it is onshore the sail is also very open (pic 4-5).

    PHASE THREE in my post "in the last part of the bottom turn, increasingly tighten the turn using back foot pressure again, but also 'pushing' the board up the wave with the front foot (so, maybe 55% back - 45% front) =
    Quote Originally Posted by Ola H. View Post
    Then I again try to release the board to pivot it towards the wave (white water in this case... I'm a bit late) which means transferring the weight back (pic 6-7)
    -----------------------------
    Currently writing the World's first Windsurfing Novel: 'Too Close to the Wind' - watch this space!
    ps check out my musings from El Medano: Life on the Reef
    -----------------------------
    Boards: Quatro Supermini Thrusters: 94 & 85
    Sails: Severne Blades.

  7. #21
    As an example of where these threads talk at cross purposes when offering advice:
    Where I sail, in onshore conditions, 'phase one' is where you are still sheeted in for the bottom turn. And not sheeted out as shown in OlaH's pic.
    I'm probably going faster than shown and the steepness of our wave allows us to stay sheeted in, as if the wind is more side shore.

    I don't particularly use the back foot for this early part of the turn either. (Sometimes you can almost 'pop' the board into the bottom turn to change direction fast – but maybe that's just me. Sometimes you sheet in hard for the first part of the turn).


    The line or track I then take on the wave depends on the wave, and my speed and the true wind combine to make an apparent wind which then tells me when I need to open up the clew.


    So, the point being, that a description of a wave ride that applies to one wave doesn't necessarily apply to another.
    Last edited by basher; 21st September 2017 at 05:57 PM.
    Now back in the UK.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •