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  1. #8
    Senior Member Navegante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jknhismassivevan View Post
    I think that Foiling is a worthy topic to be at the top of the General Discussion, its in its infancy, there is a long way to go and it has its pros and cons, that being said its certainly as interesting as many other topics and to have an ongoing source of info seems like a very valuable and worthy topic. To decry it is I'm afraid completely unnecessary, you are not forced to read it and its not like the forum is a hot bed of essential content and activity these days as the numbers of regular users, for whatever reasons, dwindle appallingly which is sad to see.

    In some ways I would be happy to see the Forum diversify to be a whole watersports Forum that welcomed kayakers, kiters, surfers, boogie boarders, wakeboarders, freedivers and open water swimmers for example, as in their own right all have a level of enthusiasm, passion and skill that I personally recognise. The exception being Jetskiers, they remain Satans Children!
    Thanks goodness you did not include SUP’ers!!

  2. #9
    Senior Member Navegante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basher View Post
    I think what actually happens is that those who take to something new then evangelise about it.

    In the case of foiling we get lots of promotional videos and news about all the gear but are told very little about the problems that still exist due to the early development of this new sport.

    It perhaps started with the idea that we could buy a foil and fit it in an existing windsurf board and use smaller sails to get going fast in lighter winds.
    In truth, the early foils were crap, and if you fit a foil to a standard board the chances are that you will soon rip the box out of it.

    We now find that big slalom gear gets going just as early as current foils, and so the light wind advantage seems to have been a myth.

    What we now find is that bespoke boards are needed, and new sails are being developed just for foiling. The foils themselves are becoming increasingly complex and more expensive.

    The launching issue will also be huge for some.



    I do still see the point of foiling for some people. Sailrepair's post (above) was very balanced. Foiling can be fun to do when you get the gear right and you've learnt the skills. But there is also a lot of kit fiddling.

    Non of the problems you mention are unknown and anyone who seriously considers getting into foiling have heard about them because I don’t believe anyone gets into any potentially expensive undertaking without some research.

    As to weather people evangelise or not I don’t know much but it is not any different than in its time wave sailing vs long boards or wave riding vs grooveriding...

  3. #10
    Senior Member jknhismassivevan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Navegante View Post
    Thanks goodness you did not include SUP’ers!!
    Bad news on that front, the forum has already been heavily penetrated (I used penetrated deliberately) IMO they are welcome and I left skimboarders off my list! Jetskiers still remain Satans Children!
    The Windsurfer Formally Known as JKRR - TWFKJKRR or "Him in the Red Shorts"

  4. #11
    There was a famous moment in windsurfing history when Erik Thieme took his shortboard out in a course race and beat the longboards. At that point, many windsurfers heaved a huge sigh of relief because it meant they didn't have to sail (or transport) longboards anymore.
    You could argue that that was also the moment when 'we' all stopped sailing longboards – except in areas where the longboard remains the best 'specialist' kit. It's like someone flicked a switch. (Other versions of that history are also available)


    On topic, I wonder if one day a foiling board will win a slalom race and we'll have a similar eureka moment?

    The thing is, the parallel doesn't quite work because foiling gear is more complex than standard slalom gear, and a change to foil racing will probably mean the outlay on gear gets even more expensive than it already is.
    We can argue that slalom racing has already died in this country due to the expense of all the gear needed to be competitive.

    We might also argue that people tend to turn to a new sport when it becomes a simpler or more user-friendly version of what they already do. (Isn't that why SUPing took off? Kiting also remains popular, simply because it's easier than windsurfing and involves less gear).
    I'd argue that foiling fans need to set up a one design class, to keep development in check.


    If you are a foiling fan then you might see some of these points as negative. I just think they are valid points of discussion.
    Last edited by basher; 9th March 2018 at 10:34 AM.
    Now back in the UK.

  5. #12
    Senior Member Navegante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jknhismassivevan View Post
    Bad news on that front, the forum has already been heavily penetrated (I used penetrated deliberately) !
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I see what you mean

  6. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by basher View Post
    Since our moderators can't persuade the Forum admin to give foiling its own section, we are stuck with the endless tedium of foiling in the general discussion area.

    It therefore seems only fair that we have at least one counter thread for those of us totally unmoved or unconvinced by foiling.

    Feel free to post your queries, doubts, or negative remarks about foiling, here.

    My feeling is that this is a hyped new sport like kiting, not really connected with windsurfing.
    For sure, it will suit some.
    Hydrofoiling is a new sport in a way - it is developing a lot and people are finding new applications for it - including surf foil, SUP foil, kite foil, and windsurf foil. Windsurf foiling is connected with windsurfing, in that you can buy a board that windsurfs like a normal windsurf board and then put a foil on it instead of a fin. The PWA chose to take an interest in windfoiling because it allowed them to race when conditions did not suit slalom racing.

    You are right Basher in that foiling will not suit everyone. Local conditions can be less or more suited to foiling. You need to know what is under the surface of the water - both rocks and weeds etc. There is also a lot of development happening, so equipment is likely to keep developing for a while.

    I think it is useful to have a thread which discusses downsides of windfoiling.

  7. #14
    Senior Member Navegante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basher View Post
    There was a famous moment in windsurfing history when Erik Thieme took his shortboard out in a course race and beat the longboards. At that point, many windsurfers heaved a huge sigh of relief because it meant they didn't have to sail (or transport) longboards anymore.
    You could argue that that was also the moment when 'we' all stopped sailing longboards – except in areas where the longboard remains the best 'specialist' kit. It's like someone flicked a switch. (Other versions of that history are also available)


    On topic, I wonder if one day a foiling board will win a slalom race and we'll have a similar eureka moment?

    The thing is, the parallel doesn't quite work because foiling gear is more complex than standard slalom gear, and a change to foil racing will probably mean the outlay on gear gets even more expensive than it already is.
    We can argue that slalom racing has already died in this country due to the expense of all the gear needed to be competitive.

    We might also argue that people tend to turn to a new sport when it becomes a simpler or more user-friendly version of what they already do. (Isn't that why SUPing took off?).
    I'd argue that foiling fans need to set up a one design class, to keep development in check.


    If you are a foiling fan then you might see some of these points as negative. I just think they are valid points of discussion.
    Basher your views are way too dated at this point. You are lagging at least two years in the foil development. More and more boards are out there with foil ready fin boxes.
    I also think your views on slalom are marked by the waveriding photographic microcosmos in which you live and possibly limited just to a small section of the UK coast and your Southafrican stays for a primarily wave location.
    The eureka moment was when Mike Waltz showed us a surfboard with a rig on way earlier. But that is history.

    There will be slalom race foiling (another armaments race and doomed from the start regarding the average freerider) and there will be recreational foiling for lighter days like the Naish foiling concept and the Horue pioneers.

    Yourself should you pick up the interest (instead of decrying it) you could be foiling with your same light and small size wavesailing rigs, your Severne Pro sails are excellent for it, all you’d need is a board dedicated which could cost you a lot less than a couple of sails or one of your other boards. You’d be airborned in no time and it will take you into your old age.
    No need for massive gear/rig.

    Open your mind.
    Last edited by Navegante; 9th March 2018 at 11:08 AM. Reason: Spelling

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