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  1. #29
    I can't see it selling well in the UK... if there wasn't the appetite for the Kona (which is a great fun 'long board' that'll be far better to sail than this) then I can't see this thing selling to anyone other than the most nostalgic driven amongst us.
    hostis humani generis

  2. #30
    Senior Member Navegante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Grooverider View Post
    I can't see it selling well in the UK... if there wasn't the appetite for the Kona (which is a great fun 'long board' that'll be far better to sail than this) then I can't see this thing selling to anyone other than the most nostalgic driven amongst us.
    I wouldn’t buy it just because it says Windsurfer in the sticker, it is not the same board.
    Now if they did a modern light version... I could convince myself to add one to the collection

  3. #31
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    A few remarks;

    "I struggle a little with the original windsurfer concept. Boards have matured and improved over the years. It does seem pure nostalgia to want for an early design in the evolution of our sport"

    Thanks for the good wishes, but it's far from pure nostalgia, and while boards have improved in many ways the laws of physics mean that they have also gone backwards in some ways.

    The liking for this style of board is driven by several factors, including the desire for preference for fast-tacking designs over designs that go faster in a straight line but are slower to tack, and the desire for a board that feels powered up quite early despite having a small rig. The typical peak breeze in many of the most popular sailing grounds around the world is allegedly 8 knots and in those conditions many more "modern" boards still feel unbalanced and underpowered to many of us. Many of us also prefer a design with a smaller fin and more rocker because it tacks so quickly and feels more responsive in terms of its reaction to minor steering inputs; you really have to be very light on your back foot when sailing the One Design and just as many people like a shortboard (or a bike, sportscar, boat or whatever) that turns with little effort, so some of us like that in a longboard.

    About the Kona being "far better to sail" - it depends on your taste. When we trialled the Kona (which is a lovely board in many ways) it was slower than the Windsurfer One Design around a course in light to moderate winds. Since the ducktail reduces its length and increases turbulence when the Kona isn't planing it's not surprising. When the idea is to create a boat that works well in the light airs most places normally get and the importance of effective waterline length, the Windsurfer LT is likely to be faster and have better glide most of the time.

    "Now if they did a modern light version...". This is pretty much the modern light version at 15kg. The Phantom 377 owners I know measure them at 15-17kg or more with straps. Sure, Cobra could do a lighter Windsurfer LT but that would cost more and break more.

    The people who still race the Windsurfer have sailed plenty of other stuff as well - over the last few years the fleet has included former PWA world champions, a Youth Worlds runner-up, IMCO and RSX Olympians and Olympic squad sailors, 49erFX Olympic trials winners, etc. Think of it as the Laser of windsurfers, or the cyclocross bike of windsurfers. Sure, it's not like a foiling Moth or duel suspension MTB but it's not meant to be. It's simple, cheap and cheerful.

    Cobra are preparing a third mould to keep up with demand. That's an interesting commentary in itself, given that about the time I left this board there was no longboard windsurfer in production anywhere in the world, and lots of people were saying that no member of the public would buy a 12 foot board - something that the SUP world proved to be very wrong.

  4. #32
    Senior Member tezwoz11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C249 View Post
    A few remarks;

    "I struggle a little with the original windsurfer concept. Boards have matured and improved over the years. It does seem pure nostalgia to want for an early design in the evolution of our sport"

    Thanks for the good wishes, but it's far from pure nostalgia, and while boards have improved in many ways the laws of physics mean that they have also gone backwards in some ways.

    The liking for this style of board is driven by several factors, including the desire for preference for fast-tacking designs over designs that go faster in a straight line but are slower to tack, and the desire for a board that feels powered up quite early despite having a small rig. The typical peak breeze in many of the most popular sailing grounds around the world is allegedly 8 knots and in those conditions many more "modern" boards still feel unbalanced and underpowered to many of us. Many of us also prefer a design with a smaller fin and more rocker because it tacks so quickly and feels more responsive in terms of its reaction to minor steering inputs; you really have to be very light on your back foot when sailing the One Design and just as many people like a shortboard (or a bike, sportscar, boat or whatever) that turns with little effort, so some of us like that in a longboard.

    About the Kona being "far better to sail" - it depends on your taste. When we trialled the Kona (which is a lovely board in many ways) it was slower than the Windsurfer One Design around a course in light to moderate winds. Since the ducktail reduces its length and increases turbulence when the Kona isn't planing it's not surprising. When the idea is to create a boat that works well in the light airs most places normally get and the importance of effective waterline length, the Windsurfer LT is likely to be faster and have better glide most of the time.

    "Now if they did a modern light version...". This is pretty much the modern light version at 15kg. The Phantom 377 owners I know measure them at 15-17kg or more with straps. Sure, Cobra could do a lighter Windsurfer LT but that would cost more and break more.

    The people who still race the Windsurfer have sailed plenty of other stuff as well - over the last few years the fleet has included former PWA world champions, a Youth Worlds runner-up, IMCO and RSX Olympians and Olympic squad sailors, 49erFX Olympic trials winners, etc. Think of it as the Laser of windsurfers, or the cyclocross bike of windsurfers. Sure, it's not like a foiling Moth or duel suspension MTB but it's not meant to be. It's simple, cheap and cheerful.

    Cobra are preparing a third mould to keep up with demand. That's an interesting commentary in itself, given that about the time I left this board there was no longboard windsurfer in production anywhere in the world, and lots of people were saying that no member of the public would buy a 12 foot board - something that the SUP world proved to be very wrong.
    Good insights - cheers!

  5. #33
    Senior Member Navegante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C249 View Post
    A few remarks;

    "I struggle a little with the original windsurfer concept. Boards have matured and improved over the years. It does seem pure nostalgia to want for an early design in the evolution of our sport"

    Thanks for the good wishes, but it's far from pure nostalgia, and while boards have improved in many ways the laws of physics mean that they have also gone backwards in some ways.

    The liking for this style of board is driven by several factors, including the desire for preference for fast-tacking designs over designs that go faster in a straight line but are slower to tack, and the desire for a board that feels powered up quite early despite having a small rig. The typical peak breeze in many of the most popular sailing grounds around the world is allegedly 8 knots and in those conditions many more "modern" boards still feel unbalanced and underpowered to many of us. Many of us also prefer a design with a smaller fin and more rocker because it tacks so quickly and feels more responsive in terms of its reaction to minor steering inputs; you really have to be very light on your back foot when sailing the One Design and just as many people like a shortboard (or a bike, sportscar, boat or whatever) that turns with little effort, so some of us like that in a longboard.

    About the Kona being "far better to sail" - it depends on your taste. When we trialled the Kona (which is a lovely board in many ways) it was slower than the Windsurfer One Design around a course in light to moderate winds. Since the ducktail reduces its length and increases turbulence when the Kona isn't planing it's not surprising. When the idea is to create a boat that works well in the light airs most places normally get and the importance of effective waterline length, the Windsurfer LT is likely to be faster and have better glide most of the time.

    "Now if they did a modern light version...". This is pretty much the modern light version at 15kg. The Phantom 377 owners I know measure them at 15-17kg or more with straps. Sure, Cobra could do a lighter Windsurfer LT but that would cost more and break more.

    The people who still race the Windsurfer have sailed plenty of other stuff as well - over the last few years the fleet has included former PWA world champions, a Youth Worlds runner-up, IMCO and RSX Olympians and Olympic squad sailors, 49erFX Olympic trials winners, etc. Think of it as the Laser of windsurfers, or the cyclocross bike of windsurfers. Sure, it's not like a foiling Moth or duel suspension MTB but it's not meant to be. It's simple, cheap and cheerful.

    Cobra are preparing a third mould to keep up with demand. That's an interesting commentary in itself, given that about the time I left this board there was no longboard windsurfer in production anywhere in the world, and lots of people were saying that no member of the public would buy a 12 foot board - something that the SUP world proved to be very wrong.
    What I mean by light version is the Original Windsurfer measurements. Making the Original in lighter materials available today instead of the roto molded 20+kg.

  6. #34
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    C249,

    Please do not get me wrong, I am a fan of longboards. As I have not seen this particular version in the flesh it is hard to comment. However, after the original windsurfer many brands produced lighter models, better designs, decent foot straps and far better slot designs. Mistral, F2 etc made some wonderful longboards that IMHO were better than the original windsurfer which was an early design in the evolution of the concept. My thoughts are not that this style of board is wrong, just that they improved a lot from here and this seems more of a nostalgic rendition rather than a development.

  7. #35
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    Phill, I'm a definite fan of longboards too and an experienced Raceboard sailer (2nd Mistral nationals, raced F2 at world titles, etc) and as I noted, current One Design fans have done things like won the World Cup on Raceboards, done a bunch of Olympics on IMCOs and RSXs and finished second in the Youth Worlds on IMCOs. We know the strengths and issues with Raceboards.

    Raceboards are fantastic but whether they are "better" surely depends very much on personal taste and circumstances. As noted above, the improvements all come with significant downsides. If other people prefer the Raceboard feel then that's great, but as noted earlier the two types are not really comparable in terms of one being "better". The physics of sailing don't change - if you want better straight line speed then compromises have to be made.

    There are also simple personal taste issues; for example I love sailing a board that is on the edge of being overpowered and the One Design gets to that stage in lighter winds than a Raceboard. If you have different personal preferences then that is great, but that's all they are. After all, if something is better just because it's newer, lighter, faster in good conditions and easier to store then Raceboarders would all have switched to Formula and then to kites.

    The other motive is that it's felt the sport needs to re-orient itself to be more accepting of light wind sailing, and that's not driven by nostalgia but by the professional experience and knowledge of people like the head of the biggest board brand, the production head of the biggest manufacturer, and information from academic studies on sports development.

    I don't think anyone in the One Design class wants to take away anything from Raceboards or any other windsurfer. It's just that in the same way that sports like cycling cater for a huge range of bikes, and sailing caters for a huge range of boats, windsurfing can also cater for a wide range of boards.

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